VIDEO: PM says Senator Payman’s actions are ‘not acceptable’

SARAH FERGUSON, PRESENTER:  Prime Minister, welcome to 7.30. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER:  Thanks for having me back on the program.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Will Senator Payman still be in the Labor Party at the end of this week? 

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, that, of course, is a decision for her. She has made a decision that she can't be bound by what puts our team together and I would like to see her rejoin the team and that option is certainly available to her.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Now there are reports today that she's been getting advice from the well-known election strategist, who is known for helping independents in the Senate and talking to the Muslim group who are planning to run candidates against Labor in the House and the Senate. Is that a personal betrayal of you?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Look, I don't take these issues personally. I've been around a while, Sarah, and I've seen people at various times make decisions to change the direction upon which they were elected. 

Fatima was, of course, elected as a Labor Senator. Without ALP next to her name, just like I'm prime minister, because I'm a member of a group. I rely upon the support of the political party which I've had allegiance to since I came out of the womb.

SARAH FERGUSON:  But we're talking about someone here who is talking both to an election strategist and to a group of people who say that the Labor Party is immoral for its stance on Gaza, and they are going to run candidates against Labor. How can someone like that remain in the party?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, Sarah, what I'm focused on is making a difference, I'm focused on my job, and yesterday, some 13.6 million Australians got tax cuts, 2.6 million workers got an increase in their wage. 

Paid parental leave got extended by two weeks, every household got $300 in energy bill relief and we had a program on cost-of-living that will make a practical difference. 

I think that is what overwhelmingly a majority of your listeners are concerned about. They're not focused on the rules and practices of the Senate or of the Labor Party. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  If I may interrupt. This is not just about rules. This is about someone talking to people who are committed to thwarting your agenda.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, I can't control that. What I can control is what our response is that if people aren't clearly part of the team, and they say and declare that they can't be part of the team, then they, themselves, by their own actions, have excluded themselves for the period of time in which they cannot undertake that collective principle upon which the Labor Party has been built since 1891.

SARAH FERGUSON:  But as we sit here, it's acceptable for you for someone to be talking to your opponents?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, clearly, it's not acceptable, which is why Senator Payman has been suspended from participation in the Caucus.

SARAH FERGUSON:  But since that suspension, she's now talking to people who are committed to unseating Labor members?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Sarah, the idea that this happened just in the last 24 hours is, I think, not what has occurred.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Just explain that to us. So, what has happened here?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Clearly, as you know, someone doesn't just pop up on Insiders because they were walking past the studio on Sunday. 

Now, I asked for an explanation of why, what the motivation of that was? I haven't received one just as Senator Payman's Caucus colleagues weren't given the courtesy of any advance notice that she would cross the floor to vote for a position that is not consistent with Labor's position when it comes to the Middle East. 

We've taken a very principled position and that is, in the long-term issue, to work towards a two-state solution, but one in which we have provided over $70 million of aid for Gaza. One in which we are saying, and voting for in forums, the US peace plan that would see a ceasefire occur.

SARAH FERGUSON:  I'd like to come back to Gaza in a minute. I just want to stay here to be absolutely clear that we are both talking about the same thing. That, in addition to those things that you talked about, to not raising the issue in Caucus, to doing an interview on Insiders, voting with the Greens last week, it's now being reported that Senator Payman is speaking to your direct opponents - people who have said that they want to unseat Labor members at the next election.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, Senator Payman is responsible for her own actions ...

SARAH FERGUSON:  Can someone like that remain in the Labor Party?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  ... and is accountable for it. 

Well, Senator Payman has been suspended from participation in the Caucus. I think it is unfortunate, because if you want to actually create change in whatever direction, you need to be party of, or a part of a party of government. 

Senator Payman had the privilege of being elected as a member of a party of government, and it is a pity that she has chosen not to participate as a team member. At no stage has there been anything raised in the Caucus by Senator Payman, for example, about our policy on the Middle East. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  How long do you think she's been having negotiations like these with other parties who are opposed to you?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I'm not focused on it Sarah. I've good a big job. And when I was door knocking in Melbourne, in small businesses in the electorate of Deakin on Saturday or when I was in the electorate of Holt or Gellibrand over the weekend as well, what Australians were talking about is how to get cost-of-living relief, what was happening with our tax cuts, what was happening with their jobs. 

What Australians talk to me about is climate change and the need to have clean energy, rather than Peter Dutton's thought bubble of nuclear energy that's uncosted, untested. They can't say really how many reactors, how many gigs will be produced.

SARAH FERGUSON:  And indeed, these are all of the things that you wanted to be talking about in this last week of parliament.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  And that is what I'm talking about.

SARAH FERGUSON:  You may have been talking about that on doorsteps, but all through this week, you've been talking about Senator Payman. But let me put the question to you.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  No, we haven't. Sarah, just a slight correction there.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Sir. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  What we've been talking about is what we've delivered on the 1st of July on our plan for a stronger economy, on our plan to deal with the opportunity that comes with dealing with climate change and not just the challenge that it represents. 

On gender equity, we've seen the gender pay gap close to the lowest amount ever. The swearing in of the new Governor-General, Sam Mostyn, that represents really a contemporary person to occupy that office. I thought Her Excellency's speech was outstanding, her first speech as Governor-General. 

That's what I've been focused on, and I know that some of the commentary are obsessed by this. I'm not. What I'm obsessed by is making a difference to the people who need government to make a positive impact on their lives.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Let me just put it to you in this way, because this goes to what happens at the next election, so it's of immediate and salient interest to you. The group that Senator Payman has reportedly been talking to are angry that you haven't responded strongly enough to the invasion of Gaza. The question is this, how worried are you about the electoral impact of a movement like that?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I think overwhelmingly, Australians don't want conflict brought here but we have taken a principled position in accordance with Labor principles since we came to office. 

We reversed the decision about moving the capital to Jerusalem. We changed the nomenclature of Gaza and the West Bank to the occupied Palestinian territories. We provided increased aid to Palestinians, but we have consistently supported a two-state solution. 

The problem with the motion that was moved by the Greens is that it forgot to mention Israel and a one-state solution, whether it is Israel or Palestine, is not in the interests of Israelis or Palestinians. So we have mourned every single innocent life which has been lost in this conflict.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Are you concerned that Labor is out of touch now with the priorities of the young diverse candidates that it wants and needs to attract?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, Sarah, we have 104 members of our Caucus and 103 people are supportive of the road in which we have taken on this issue. 

I understand that for many members of the Jewish community, as well as members of the Palestinian or Islamic community as well - this is a really difficult issue, really difficult issue and there's a great deal of passion involved as well. 

But the role of the Australian Government is to represent Australia's national interest. To represent as well a principled position, and a principled position isn't to see things as just a one side or the other to cheer for. 

It's to think about what role Australia can play in not just dealing with the immediate, which is why we voted for a ceasefire, which is why we increased aid, which is why we continue to call for hostages to be released, which is why we voted for increased Palestinian representations ...

SARAH FERGUSON:  Let me ask you this question ...

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  ...at the United Nations.

SARAH FERGUSON:  ...which is an extension of this. Do you really think that voters would mark you down for going to a NATO summit in Washington while they're struggling with cost-of-living issues?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  No.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Then why aren't you going?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I'm not going because we're not members of NATO.

SARAH FERGUSON:  You went to the last two previous meetings.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I went to the last two.

SARAH FERGUSON:  And said they were important?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  And they were, and it is.

SARAH FERGUSON:  But you've changed your mind. Why have you changed your mind?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  No, I haven't changed my mind.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Did you never say you were going to go?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  No. We never accepted the invitation. We were considering what was before us. 

When I went to the first NATO summit, it was an opportunity for the first time to meet many world leaders.

SARAH FERGUSON:  So your presence is no longer relevant or useful?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  No, I didn't say that.

SARAH FERGUSON:  I'm just pressing you for time to understand why you've made this decision.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  We then went to France and we then went to the Ukraine. When I went to the NATO summit that was held in Lithuania, I went via Germany to sign a billion-dollar deal ...

SARAH FERGUSON:  Other countries are sending their leaders.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  ...for manufacturing. They are. We aren't members of NATO.

SARAH FERGUSON:  But the other observer countries are sending their leaders.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  You know what I find extraordinary. Is that Peter Dutton who moved a motion in the parliament last year, saying that, demanding that I not go to APEC, where Australia is a member, where we are a founding member of APEC and needed to participate in that forum, as opposed to NATO, where for a lot of the NATO summit, as an observer country, we're not there. We're not in the room with the NATO members when that takes place.

SARAH FERGUSON:  So just to be clear - when did you make the decision not to go?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I made the decision a while ago and we made a decision to send Richard Marles, who is our defence minister, who is the deputy prime minister and that's consistent. I must say it's a higher-level representation than the three previous Liberal prime ministers who all sent ministers rather than go themselves, all three of them - Morrison, Abbott and Turnbull.

SARAH FERGUSON:  This was meant to be a big week for you. I know that you have been making your arguments about tax cuts, cost-of-living relief and tomorrow the introduction of the legislation for Future Made in Australia. Do you blame the Greens for derailing all of that work this week?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  I don't believe that that's happened because when people get their next pay packet, there will be extra money in it. Extra dollars in people's pockets because of the decisions that the government has made. 

And you will recall, Sarah, that the decision to change the Liberal tax cuts, to make them Labor's tax cuts, to make them fairer, to change that decision, was a difficult decision but it was the right decision done for the right reasons. 

And I note that on July 1, in spite of all of the fuss that was there at the time from some of the tabloids that criticised in their decision, there's been no criticism in the parliament this week. No criticism in the media, because it was the right thing to do, just as our energy bill relief is the right thing to do. Just as our support for increasing wages is the right thing to do as well.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Let me just put this to you briefly if I may. So for someone earning $50,000, the tax cut is just over $17 a week. Is that going to alleviate the very clear suffering of thousands of Australians and thousands more than last year who are now regularly accessing food banks?

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Well, if you're on $50,000, chances are you'll get not just a tax cut, you'll get an increase in your wages as well. So 3.75 per cent up, and less money out of it. So you will get to earn more and keep more of what you earn. 

In addition to that, you'll have the $300 energy bill relief, perhaps more depending upon what state you are in. You'll have, if you're a family, the additional paid parental leave. 

If you rely upon medicines, you'll have a freeze. For someone on, a pensioner, will have a freeze for five years in PBS payments. 

If you have children in childcare, 1.2 million Australians have benefited from cheaper childcare. If you're doing a TAFE course, to advance your position in life, that will be free for now over 400,000 Australians have benefited from that. 

So it's not one size fits all. It's a full suite of measures designed in a way to provide that cost-of-living relief while continuing to put that downward pressure on inflation.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Prime Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  Thanks very much.